What's a car you can't believe people bought new?

"The Stig's Missourian Cousin" (zachelliott) 07/26/2017 at 09:29 • Filed to: None

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Driving to work today I saw a late 90's Olds Cutlass. Yes, the rebadged Malibu. It even had a sticker from a local dealer that I remember growing up. That led me to think about other cars that you see on the road today that you can’t believe or can’t remember people ever buying new. What about Oppo? What’s a car you see all the time that you can’t imagine it being new and people paying new car money for it?

pip bip - choose Corrour > The Stig's Missourian Cousin 07/26/2017 at 09:33

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Pontiac Aztek, Toyota Camry, Toyota Corolla need i go on?

OPPOsaurus WRX > The Stig's Missourian Cousin 07/26/2017 at 09:36

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Jcarr > pip bip - choose Corrour 07/26/2017 at 09:37

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Why would you be surprised that people would buy a Camry or Corolla new?

They may not be exciting, but they’re safe, reliable and efficient. That’s what the vast majority of buyers want (as evidenced by Toyota’s sales figures).

Jcarr > The Stig's Missourian Cousin 07/26/2017 at 09:38

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Chevy Uplander. Why would anyone other than a fleet company every buy one of those brand new when literally any other minivan would be better?

My X-type is too a real Jaguar > The Stig's Missourian Cousin 07/26/2017 at 09:39

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I’m old, so the 1st gen Excel or Yugo. At that time you could get a really good used car for the same money. The Escort and Chevette while miserable cars were not much more and exponentially better than those pieces of crap.

Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection > The Stig's Missourian Cousin 07/26/2017 at 09:39

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GM even used that car as the “generic,” vehicle for their 2008 Malibu “bank robbery,” ad.

Genius commercial, too.

pip bip - choose Corrour > Jcarr 07/26/2017 at 09:40

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but it keeps selling in great volume?

HOW?

where do Toyota stash the drugs in them?

The Stig's Missourian Cousin > Jcarr 07/26/2017 at 09:41

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This. I’m not surprised by people buying Camrys and Corollas new. My question is more about cars that seem to be pointless. Like the Cutlass which is a lazy rebadge of a Malibu. Why did people buy a Cutlass when a Malibu was cheaper and looks the same? That’s really the question i’m asking. Perhaps I should have phrased it better.

crowmolly > The Stig's Missourian Cousin 07/26/2017 at 09:42

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Non-Evo Lancer.

Ash78, voting early and often > The Stig's Missourian Cousin 07/26/2017 at 09:42

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I can’t top the OP. That entire generation, which ran through 2004 or so (and the rental fleets even longer) were so abysmally bad compared to all of the competition. And they weren’t even unique in any way — the later Malibu Maxx, while also bland, was at least trying to do something new. The older Malibu/Cutlass was one of the worst cars ever. Sometimes I imagine what it must have been like working on the assembly line back then. I probably wouldn’t have even wanted to put the tire pressure placard on straight, just to spite my employer.

Wagon Guy drives a Boostang > The Stig's Missourian Cousin 07/26/2017 at 09:42

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Chrysler 200. There are three on my block.

Jcarr > pip bip - choose Corrour 07/26/2017 at 09:43

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Because they’re great cars. What’s so difficult to understand about that?

I have a 2016 Camry and I absolutely love it for those reasons. It’s a fantastic car.

The Stig's Missourian Cousin > Jcarr 07/26/2017 at 09:43

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Alternatively the Buick Terraza (wut) and Pontiac Montana SV6. Same van with very minimal changes, yet different prices. The Uplander was cheap, and I get that. I think the Terraza and the SV6 would fall into my question pretty well. So maybe the question should be “Why the F would someone buy something that’s so obviously rebadged over the cheaper alternative”

interstate366, now In The Industry > The Stig's Missourian Cousin 07/26/2017 at 09:50

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And the Saturn Relay. There’s one of each within a close distance of my house.

Carbon Fiber Sasquatch > The Stig's Missourian Cousin 07/26/2017 at 09:51

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Pontiac Eqi- I mean, Torrent.

You forgot these existed didn’t you?

Azrek > The Stig's Missourian Cousin 07/26/2017 at 09:55

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Pontiac Bonnevillie

Those things were land yachts.

Then later on...the long ass Camaro and Cougar.

chilango > The Stig's Missourian Cousin 07/26/2017 at 09:55

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The Hyundai Veracruz.... i think they just materialized out of thin air.

BlueMazda2 - Blesses the rains down in Africa, Purveyor of BMW Individual Arctic Metallic, Merci Twingo > Jcarr 07/26/2017 at 09:55

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You beat me to it.

The Stig's Missourian Cousin > chilango 07/26/2017 at 09:56

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The what?

Oh yea. Those existed

The Stig's Missourian Cousin > Azrek 07/26/2017 at 09:56

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Bonneville with the exception of the SSEi. 3.8 Supercharged? Yes plz

BlueMazda2 - Blesses the rains down in Africa, Purveyor of BMW Individual Arctic Metallic, Merci Twingo > The Stig's Missourian Cousin 07/26/2017 at 09:57

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Mercury Monterey and Saturn Relay.

You really do have to sit there and question people sometimes.

chilango > The Stig's Missourian Cousin 07/26/2017 at 09:57

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The Kia Borrego was more or less the same case.

The Stig's Missourian Cousin > chilango 07/26/2017 at 10:00

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I actually remember the Borrego because IIRC, it was the first V8 in a Kia and that was kinda a big deal at the time. And it looked way different than the other Kia models and stood out. The Veracruz looked like a Santa Fe, Tuscon, Flagstaff, Reno. Some of those are Hyundai models I think.

Carbon Fiber Sasquatch > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 07/26/2017 at 10:00

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Oh and the obvious, Cadillac Catera

I’d like to overpay for a cavalier please!

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > The Stig's Missourian Cousin 07/26/2017 at 10:02

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The accord crosstour - all the practicality of the sedan, with the gas mileage of an SUV, and quite possibly honda’s worst exterior design in their entire history.

Just get the CR-V! It’s more practical and better on gas since the crosstour used to force you into the V6 while the CR-V stuck with the 4 cylinder.

Mercedes Streeter > chilango 07/26/2017 at 10:03

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Apparently the Borrego was very solid. Had some offroading creds, ladder frame, V8, good towing capacity, decent interior. It was a good SUV, just few knew about it and it had a polarizing design (I love Peter Schreyer but that design did nothing for me).

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Azrek 07/26/2017 at 10:11

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Depends somewhat on the Bonneville.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Mercedes Streeter 07/26/2017 at 10:12

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I’ve been in one. Comfortable, not a thing fundamentally wrong with it.

EL_ULY > chilango 07/26/2017 at 10:12

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Solid and V8!

Como la barbacoa verdadera de borrego en el DF!

EL_ULY > pip bip - choose Corrour 07/26/2017 at 10:15

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I wish I could buy a new Corolla or Camry

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > The Stig's Missourian Cousin 07/26/2017 at 10:18

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You forgot the Saturn... whatever the Saturn version was called. Relay, Saturn Relay.

E92M3 > The Stig's Missourian Cousin 07/26/2017 at 10:21

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Oldsmobile Alero. I always think to myself “did you not even walk around the car when you bought it?”

Case in point:

Mercedes Streeter > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 07/26/2017 at 10:22

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I had my behind the wheel class in a new Equinox. To quote my driving instructor:

“This is called a crossover, it means that it’s super easy to move the steering wheel to the right side when you take the car overseas.”

The interior was so bland I believed him. lol

duurtlang > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 07/26/2017 at 10:23

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Those were RWD and larger than a period Malibu, let alone the Cavalier. An americanized Opel non-luxury executive segment car. Zero connection to the Chevy, other than being GM.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > The Stig's Missourian Cousin 07/26/2017 at 10:23

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The first gen Dodge Avenger. Terrible interior, ugly exterior, lathargic out dated engines, and ancient transmissions. All it had going for it was that it kinda looked like a Charger, which was also a crap car. It was a much better car after the 2011 refresh, But I can’t see anyone in their right mind buying a 08-10. Or basically any Dodge product from that time period, SRT products not included.

I actually know a guy who’s wife owned a 2010 Avenger and he told me it was a sports car. So basically marketing wank worked.

bwp240 > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 07/26/2017 at 10:24

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The Catera was a V6 RWD sedan. Yes they were over priced, but calling it a Cavalier is a bit much.

FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 07/26/2017 at 10:25

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Oh come on now, the Opel Omega was at least a proper RWD car at a time when the entire existing Cadillac lineup was FWD. Calling it a fancy Cavalier is a bit of a stretch. That being said, it was still too downmarket and out of character for Cadillac at the time. Would have made a lot more sense as a Buick.

The Stig's Missourian Cousin > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 07/26/2017 at 10:26

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Can you blame me though haha. I forgot Saturn made a Traverse too

FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com > Ash78, voting early and often 07/26/2017 at 10:27

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I still can’t believe Motor Trend gave these things Car of the Year.

bwp240 > The Stig's Missourian Cousin 07/26/2017 at 10:28

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Outside of fleet, did anyone actually try these before buying. Power Wheels have better build quality.

BIGBLOCK472 - wide and bizarre > Jcarr 07/26/2017 at 10:30

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I have a Camry and it’s an excellent car. It may not be engaging but it does 100% of what it’s supposed to do. I don’t understand how car enthusiasts can deride the Camry for being reliable but celebrate cars almost seemingly built to self destruct like the Demon or Hellcat or anything with German electronics. Cars are designed to transport people and things from Point A to Point B. Anything else above that is fluff.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > The Stig's Missourian Cousin 07/26/2017 at 10:32

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The only reason I knew about it is I’ve been CL shopping for a friend and they’ve popped up.

The Stig's Missourian Cousin > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 07/26/2017 at 10:34

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Those were part of that GM generation where they just said “Fuck making brands unique. Slap a Pontiac/Saturn badge on that Chevy and call it a day”

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > The Stig's Missourian Cousin 07/26/2017 at 10:35

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Miata.

I thought everyone buys them a decade or two old for under $4000 on Craigslist.

Carbon Fiber Sasquatch > FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com 07/26/2017 at 10:36

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I didn’t know that! It always looked so much like a a cavalier that I thought GM just extended the wheelbase a bit and slapped a badge. I have gained some respect back for old GM.

Carbon Fiber Sasquatch > duurtlang 07/26/2017 at 10:37

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I didn’t know that! It always looked so much like a a cavalier that I thought GM just extended the wheelbase a bit and slapped a badge. I have gained some respect back for old GM. 

404 - User No Longer Available > The Stig's Missourian Cousin 07/26/2017 at 10:43

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I see your 3.8SC and raise you a Northstar V8 GXP.

Captain of the Enterprise > The Stig's Missourian Cousin 07/26/2017 at 10:55

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The Aveo

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > The Stig's Missourian Cousin 07/26/2017 at 10:55

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Yup

The Stig's Missourian Cousin > Captain of the Enterprise 07/26/2017 at 10:58

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I would agree to a point in that no Oppo would probably be caught dead in one new or used, but they were designed to be GM’s budget baby and they did just that. I think the proper answer in regards to the Aveo would be the Pontiac G3 which was an Aveo with a Pontiac badge and that was it (maybe red gauges). Why would you spend more on that when you could just get an Aveo for next to nothing.

CB > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 07/26/2017 at 10:58

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I saw a GXP model yesterday. I dig it.

The Stig's Missourian Cousin > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 07/26/2017 at 11:01

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I actually liked the styling of the Torrent over the Equinox. Sure they were the same, but I would have bought the Torrent....

The Stig's Missourian Cousin > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 07/26/2017 at 11:02

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ANGRY HEADLIGHTS

The Stig's Missourian Cousin > bwp240 07/26/2017 at 11:02

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Why would you think about it when you can buy it on an 8 year loan with 20% APR with $0 down and $150 a month though?

CobraJoe > BIGBLOCK472 - wide and bizarre 07/26/2017 at 11:03

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I don’t understand how car enthusiasts can deride the Camry for being reliable but celebrate cars almost seemingly built to self destruct like the Demon or Hellcat or anything with German electronics. Cars are designed to transport people and things from Point A to Point B. Anything else above that is fluff.

Would you rather be a mid level paper pusher in a big corporation, or would you rather make a living as a fighter pilot or TV show host or small business owner or anything else?

It’s the same kind of decision. The boring and safe option is available, and might be the “smart” move, but can it be that smart if you don’t enjoy it?

Besides, I’m a firm believer that in modern cars, reliability is over hyped. Most new cars will get you from A to B just as well as the Consumer Reports “most reliable” cars. Worry more about the dealership you’ll have to deal with instead, and unless you end up with the 1 in a 100k lemon, you’ll be just fine.

The Stig's Missourian Cousin > crowmolly 07/26/2017 at 11:05

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Oh god yes. I drove one when I was shopping for cars out of High School. It was so terribly bland, underpowered and just uninspiring. Amazing the Evo came out of such a terrible car. Even the WRX STi, at least the base Impreza has some redeeming qualities.

bwp240 > The Stig's Missourian Cousin 07/26/2017 at 11:07

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because with a Power Wheels, I can buy it on a credit card, 0% down, 29% interest, $20 a month, and I can set the term to whatever I want.

The Stig's Missourian Cousin > bwp240 07/26/2017 at 11:08

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And still have better resale value in the end

CobraJoe > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 07/26/2017 at 11:08

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That’s not a 1st gen Avenger, this is:

But your comment is still valid, I don’t know why anyone would buy one.

Also, does the guy you know live in Omaha? Because there was a 2nd gen Avenger screeching tires driving by the cars and coffee last saturday.

FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 07/26/2017 at 11:09

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Sorry I was being harsh then - I thought you were just ripping on it. It does have a lot of that early 90's GM look to it so I can see the confusion. This was actually one of the first attempts to bring over a rebadged Opel in an ill-conceived quick-fix attempt to compete with BMW. They got the RWD part right, but not much else. The CTS replaced the Catera from a clean sheet and fixed most of the issues, while the Opel importing shifted to FWD models given to Saturn.

CobraJoe > Azrek 07/26/2017 at 11:11

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I’ve heard that some people love their FWD bonnevilles. Considering they’re not horrible looking and apparently drive well, what’s to hate?

As for the long ass cougar, I owned a ‘77 for a while. It was not a muscle car, nor fast, but it was a great little land yacht for the couch like driving. I miss it sometimes.

X37.9XXS > The Stig's Missourian Cousin 07/26/2017 at 11:16

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How quickly you forget

Post-stress amnesia?

fhrblig > The Stig's Missourian Cousin 07/26/2017 at 11:19

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This Cutlass was allegedly a stop-gap placeholder until the Alero was ready, but in typical GM fashion they kept building it for a couple years after it was no longer necessary. Why get rid of your obsolete models when you can flood the fleet markets with them and destroy the resale values, amirite?

Spridget > The Stig's Missourian Cousin 07/26/2017 at 11:20

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The Buick T Type. It’s exactly the same as a GN, but with none of the appearance or street cred of it. There are some in blue or white, and I could see getting one of those if you hate black, but most wers a really ugly black/gray two tone.

fhrblig > E92M3 07/26/2017 at 11:22

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I’ll defend the Alero. They really weren’t bad to drive, and even the build quality held up ok for the first 100k. Also, they had none of that awful Grand Am side cladding or the nasty Grand Am interior. That automatic was terrible at shifting, though.

just-a-scratch > crowmolly 07/26/2017 at 11:51

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If you mean the “Ralliart” trim, I agree. The plain jane version is just plain but ok.

gmctavish needs more space > E92M3 07/26/2017 at 11:51

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It seemed like every second car I saw in northern Ontario was an Alero. A rusty, dirty, wheezing Alero.

just-a-scratch > The Stig's Missourian Cousin 07/26/2017 at 11:52

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Dodge Caliber.

E92M3 > fhrblig 07/26/2017 at 12:26

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Maybe it was okay to drive, but it was not a looker. This is the image that comes into my head whenever I’m behind one.

E92M3 > gmctavish needs more space 07/26/2017 at 12:28

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That’s one more reason not to go to Ontario.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > CobraJoe 07/26/2017 at 12:35

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That’s true.

BIGBLOCK472 - wide and bizarre > CobraJoe 07/26/2017 at 14:03

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I see your point. Perhaps I am still recovering from Dodge Dart ownership which promptly catapulted me into Camry ownership after just one year.

The Dart was so horrendously unreliable that it wasn’t even useful enough to keep even though I worked from home at the time.

Now that my position has changed and I drive 200 miles one way to work every week the allure of owning anything that isn’t perfectly reliable just isn’t there. Although Toyotas are not the most exciting thing around, any great feelings of automotive orgasmia I might enjoy by driving a flashy 150hp/liter Whizbang GT are quickly permanently erased by sitting on the side of the road waiting on AAA to come pick me up again and again.

CobraJoe > BIGBLOCK472 - wide and bizarre 07/26/2017 at 14:31

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The Dart was so horrendously unreliable that it wasn’t even useful enough to keep even though I worked from home at the time.

If I may ask, what went wrong on your Dart? Did it actually leave you on the side of the road waiting for a tow that often?

I’ve owned a few reportedly unreliable cars, and the majority of the problems I’ve had were due to previous owners’ modifications.

Of course, I have always bought used, and the 100k+ mileage cars have years of repairs and proof that they do work. (Though I’m also the type that considers a clutch master and radiator replacement on a 10 year old car as “acceptable”, even though it’s not normal from my experience).

BIGBLOCK472 - wide and bizarre > CobraJoe 07/26/2017 at 20:08

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It never left me on the road because I was working from home at the time, but that’s the only reason why.

EDIT: My husband drove it to work one night and the clutch pedal sinking left him stranded after a 13.5 hour shift and it had to get towed.

I bought the car used in 2015 although I was the first person to ever title it. It was a 2013 GT 6-speed with 6,200 miles on the odometer. It was replacing a 2006 Town Car with 120k that was falling apart at the seams (My first Town Car was a 2001 and it was bulletproof up until about 285k). I paid 13k for the Dart and was sure I had found a winner.

The first think I noticed was that when I would hit a pothole or speed bump the Bluetooth would die. It was fairly repeatable but the dealer couldn’t reproduce. When cold weather came and tires needed to be aired up the dash would display “Please o flare tires to 0 psi”. The car got harder and harder to drive smoothly because the clutch pedal seemed to never have the same engagement point. Dealer couldn’t reproduce. Then the clutch pedal would be flat on the floor after having been parked overnight. The dealer replaced the master cylinder. The issue got worse and now had issues where a 2-1 shift couldn’t be performed without coming to a compete stop making stop-and-go driving very difficult. The dealer replaced the clutch, throwout bearing, and slave cylinder at 12k miles. The clutch pedal still sank to the floor but less frequently the other behavior minimized but never fully went away. During that time I noticed while cleaning the car that all four tires had TEST TIRE stamped into the sidewalls. I asked my neighbor who works for a tire manufacturer about it and he said it wasn’t safe to drive. I contacted FCA and didn’t hear back. I contacted Yokohama and they told me not to drive the car and that they’d send me a new set of tires as long as promised to I send them back the old ones.

The rain sensitive wipers were either off or maniac speed and sometimes didn’t work at all. The automatic high beams only worked periodically and would announce their uselessness with a warning message. There were pegged weird errors too. The reverse light burned bulb warning was a common error message on starting but both bulbs aworked fine. Also the front bumper was from a Limited rather than a GT. I googled the VIN and found that the dealer I bought it from had purchased it a few weeks before from an auto auction in Memphis TN where the seller was listed as FCA. That explains why all of the Bluetooth slots were occupied with ascending model number Blackberrys by mostly Indian sounding names. And the test tires. And the wrong bumper. I looked at the build date sticker in the door and it was 12 weeks prior to the official production begin date for the Dart.

At a later service revealed that one of my six month old new tires was already at 50% tread depth. I was angry but it was a free tire so whatever. The dealership performed the alignment and after that point the car began to shake at 72-73mph and then again violently at 75mph and up. I took it back to the dealership and they said it was likely drivetrain related I thought that was BS but whatever I was thoroughly done with the car. It had only 25k on the odometer. The next day I took it next door to the Toyota dealership and traded it in on a 2012 Camry with 72k miles. I have put close to 27k on it in the last year with zero problems aside from one dead battery. It’s boring as shit but i’d rather have boring than unreliable.

Needless to say I have learned a few things about buying seemingly new used cars. And aside from *maybe* buying another Wrangler (our 2014 Rubicon has been a peach) at some point I am totally scared off from first year FCA products...if I would ever consider one again at all.

CobraJoe > BIGBLOCK472 - wide and bizarre 07/26/2017 at 22:04

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Sounds kind of interesting that you apparently ended up with a preproduction test car, but that does make a very good case for the “Don’t buy the first production year” theory.

Seriously though, sounds like you ended up with a lemon, especially with all those non-reproducible electrical problems. Those are the worst to try and get fixed. (We had a Ford Edge with a random dead battery in the winter, and the dealership couldn’t figure it out twice). Shame on Dodge for letting that pre-production stinker get out the door.

And honestly, that dart sounds beyond unreliable by my own wide standards. My 2005 Legacy GT is one of the worst I’ve owned, and in the 1.5 years I’ve owned it, I’ve fixed the clutch master (which did leave me stranded in the winter), the radiator, a valve cover gasket (which was not easy), and undid several poorly thought out mods. Other than a couple of rattles, it’s been perfectly trustworthy though.

I guess I’m trying to say that there is a difference between being unreliable and aggravating. Definitely get rid of a car that you hate, but reliability is just one factor in the big picture. My Legacy has enough redeeming character for me to still like it, but my wife’s old Corolla was a hateful little car and it ran perfectly every day. (Seriously, I still consider that ‘09 Corolla to be the worst car I’ve ever driven)

BIGBLOCK472 - wide and bizarre > CobraJoe 07/26/2017 at 22:58

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I was desperate when I bought the Dart because the Town Car I had at the time (which I purchased because my SAAB caught on fire and burned up on the side of the road) was turning out to be an electrical nightmare too even though it only had 110k on the odometer when I bought it and it came from a single owner in Arizona. All of the wiring under the hood was flaking apart with just a brush of your shirt sleeve the wiring harness would just disintegrate. I don’t know if it’s the heat or what but the 2001 Town Car I had previously was a fleet car at an airport in Buffalo and the entire engine bay was coated in salt. Ran perfectly. It was a gem.

I literally borrowed my neighbor’s soldering iron, watched a couple of YouTube videos and patched the harness together as best I could. I recruited my neighbor to ride with me and pray to the old gods and the new that we made it 40 miles to the stealership. Sure enough the check engine light came one and started blinking and I even broke out into prayer... to whom I don’t know or even care but we got there and purchased the Dart. Other than the MultiAir 2.4 sounding like a small John Deere tractor at idle and the punishing suspension the Dart was a great little car if it had worked as designed.

I’ve driven that generation Corolla and there is nothing redeeming about it aside from the reliability. Slow as dirt and unstable in cross winds at speed and the hardest interior plastics known to man.

I’ve always wanted to own a Legacy but the nearest dealerships are 2, 3, and 4 hours away, all in different directions. The 2005 generation is a beautiful machine. I’m sad that subaru can’t design a car like that again.

fhrblig > E92M3 07/27/2017 at 00:51

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They looked ok except for those taillights. I thought the coupe had a (very) slight Ferrari 456 vibe to the styling.